October 21, 2014, 07:59:01 pm

Author Topic: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?  (Read 6993 times)

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Offline Cabren

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2012, 11:13:26 pm »
SWToR is a great game in its respect, but its more of the same ol same ol, designed by a company that has a history of designing VERY linear games.  I started to accept what SWToR was, a game I followed since October of 2005 religiously while in beta....sadly, l I cancelled my sub before the first month even ended when it went live.  It is not that it is a bad game, it is just for me...I needed SWToR to be a sandbox with some themepark elements I guess.  I needed more classes, more variety, more open worlds etc... I needed SWG2 I think, but set in the KOTOR time frame.  I was a fanboi, and I scoffed at those that said the game would go free to play.  Well, it is not free to play--but it might go that way if they can't turn this ship around.

I like the game, but for me...it just never had that "play for years" feel to it.  I am actually thinking of re-subbing and just playing a toon to finish the story line on one of them, and then make my last exodus to the new frontier of GW2 which I have high hopes for as well.  Bioware must be stunned that they had to lay people off, I bet they never expected that not everything they touch turns to gold.  They should have taken a risk on this one instead of playing it so safe.  People are tired of these companies playing it so safe and trying to get some of WoW's subs.  They need to generate their own subs, based off a game that advances the genre.

imo...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 11:21:13 pm by Cabren »

Online Maligner

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2012, 11:18:04 pm »
I agree that the "WoW clone" is a bad thing. There is already WoW for those that want it and it would take many years just to get close to it, so why bother?

A small studio making a niche game that is not supposed to supplant WoW should be doable. The problem seems to be that no one can make an MMO these days without multi million dollar/multi year development cycles. A fairly small game that has some sandbox and little "end game" really should make it's fan base and survice given that it's set up to survive. I think it would be a tightrope to walk for anyone.

Offline Ethias

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2012, 07:36:59 am »
Unfortunately this is the exact reason SWTOR only lasted about 6 weeks for me. Sure I played it quite a bit, but the fact that if I played a character and my friends were not online I would outlevel them and I could not longer play with them made the whole model frustrating to me. Plus even with some of the changes they made I really felt like I was playing WOW with a star wars theme. And I've walked that road for too long and honestly I'm just not interested.

1. Decide on class
2. Level as quickly as possible to max level to keep up with guild and friends
3. RAID to advance equipment
4. Spend hours and hours to have a small chance to upgrade one piece of equipment
5. Have two sets of armor, one for PVE, one for PVP
6. Get frustrated in PVP because of class imbalance
7. Get frustrated because I can't go on so so raid because I don't have the gear number value of some add on that determines my score
8. Save and save for the epic mount
9. Waste tons of money on crafting when the crafting items I make are obsolete to what I'm getting in RAIDs
10. Deal with loot drama
11. Still waiting on friends to get to max level so we can "play" together
12. Deal with endless nerfs because of whiners
13. Cringe on patch day because you know they are going to break %^$!
etc..
etc..
etc..

Its been done, tried, tested, and failed over and over yet no one wants to break the barrier. Making a WOW clone and just slapping the Star Wars graphics over the top wasn't really the best idea and sadly its feeling the pain of its decisions.

I'm not going to go out and say GW2 will be the end all golden ticket to MMOs, but honestly if this one fails I'm not sure whats its going to take to make me want to try it again. The build up, the disappointment, and sadness that follow when something doesn't turn out how you expected it to. What I do hope is some of the things GW2 is doing allow the different play styles that people have to still come together as a whole. I really think that is the biggest issue with MMOs is the way they separate people into cliches and groups without any chance for them to play together. At least with some of the things they are doing I feel like it may combat this problem to keep people playing longer. I just hope they don't follow the same model and end up like other MMO's have gone.

Offline Cabren

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2012, 08:23:15 am »

1. Decide on class
2. Level as quickly as possible to max level to keep up with guild and friends
3. RAID to advance equipment
4. Spend hours and hours to have a small chance to upgrade one piece of equipment
5. Have two sets of armor, one for PVE, one for PVP
6. Get frustrated in PVP because of class imbalance
7. Get frustrated because I can't go on so so raid because I don't have the gear number value of some add on that determines my score
8. Save and save for the epic mount
9. Waste tons of money on crafting when the crafting items I make are obsolete to what I'm getting in RAIDs
10. Deal with loot drama
11. Still waiting on friends to get to max level so we can "play" together
12. Deal with endless nerfs because of whiners
13. Cringe on patch day because you know they are going to break %^$!
etc..
etc..
etc..


Agree 100%, I am just not interested in this model anymore, I like the idea of being able to play with my guild and friends at any level, and even return to lower level areas because it has meaning.  This wow, eq2, etc... model can't be the only model anymore.  I hope game developers start taking notice that people want choices and not rehacks.

Offline Duck

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2012, 08:57:30 am »
I was talking to my friend about this yesterday. Our conversation had similar results. The current model is old and games provide instant gratification now which makes capping out too easy. We were talking about our days in Everquest when we had to work for what seemed forever to complete a heritage quest to get an awesome piece of gear. The current models also do not allow for trophies or housing. I used to explore and collect gear to hang on my wall in my house or statues to stand up showing an achievement I had made. They did nothing to boost stats, but they extended game time and in my case at least enjoyability.

I like SWTOR. It is my favorite MMO out there right now, but I am playing it less because there is so little end game content. I have run the operations, and the flashpoints. I have crafted my tail off and it is all just repetition now. That kills the game for me. I am not one to repeat dailies, or do nothing but Warzones. I need fresh content, gameplay, quests, in depth crafting, lore exploration (that is not 80% broken) or something to keep me entertained. I keep trying to go to my alt, but the only thing fresh is the class quest and that is only about 10% of the game. I have to muck through all of those quests that I already did and it just gets to be rather boring. The patch has some spiffy things in it, but no new content or end game content. They are making it even faster to level up your characters which I think is a nice idea, until you get to the end then you are stuck again.

I have been a cheerleader for SWTOR since before it launched and have defended it quite a bit. I am still holding out hope that they wisen up and do something for the mass amount of end gamers they have. My guesstimate is that if they do not do something in the next couple of months before GW2 is released they are going to lose another large chunk of their subs to Guild Wars 2. Yes it is free to play, but who wants to pay for a game they no longer play when they have a free substitute.

I think the new generation of gamers (in general) want instant gratification and they do not want to spend years levelling their character. They want their character capped in a week. The developers cater to that. This is what breaks the game (IMO) I did not rush in SWTOR at all and enjoyed the content because it was very well written and the stories  are great, but withing a month or so I was capped. I then turned to crafting but there is no challenge to obtain schematics, nor is there any real benefit for capping out crafting (crafter usable items only with the exception of Biochem). Make me have to go through hell and high water to obtain that rare schematic and then make me go all over the galaxy to recover the mats to make it. I am hoping that GW2 and ESO can do away with the current model and incorporate more in a game that gives it longevity.  I would love to see this in SWTOR, but I think they are going to have to do so much that even if this is in their plans currently it is going to take some time to pull off.

I am looking to Obi Wan because he is my only hope, but I am also remembering (Spoiler) that he does not make it past A New Hope.

Insanity at its Finest

Online Jag

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2012, 09:48:45 am »
The main reason swtor failed is because it was released too early.  There were too many bugs, too many important features missing, the combat responsiveness and ability delay was god awful, the end game was lacking and it's basically WoW with lightsabers.  In today's market you can't release poor copy of WoW with a Star Wars skin on it and expect your player base to pay for something that should be in beta while you fix it.  10 years ago this might have worked but today there are too many other choices out there for gamers.

BioWare hyped this game so much, the die-hard SW fans (myself included) pre-ordered as soon as it was announced and by releasing it too early they essentially pushed their biggest player base out the door, most of whom won't bother to come back even if it does improve. 

These days in gaming you have one chance to make a first impression and BioWare/EA failed miserably.

Is GW2 the answer? Probably not, but at least they're trying to move the genre forward rather than just re-hashing a tired old model that'll never work for any game other than WoW.  Developers need to learn that if they want to build a successful MMO they need to innovate.
 

Offline Barnaby

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2012, 10:10:46 am »
I'm still a fan of the game... but even I'm getting frustrated with the lacking pvp system, the lack of cross-server warzones (pvp is not even possible in the AM anymore), lack of 8 person pvp queues... still... (wtf... seriously??), and in general, the failure to do something about server population.

If they don't do something asap about server population, then by the time they finally get around to server mergers, they'll have to merge again right afterwards.

I thought with EA putting money behind this game that it'd be higher on their priority list... ugh.

Offline Drenarb

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2012, 10:53:04 am »
I admit that there are several things with the game that I am disappointed with, mainly in the PvP arena, but it will continue to be my main game for a long time.

I only hope that BioWare doesn't wait too long to release some much needed updates to the game to retain those members that likely won't resub if things don't get fixed before then.
Dren



Online Jaedan

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2012, 11:00:15 am »
I still like SWTOR as well but when talking about this game specifically they made the mistake (so far) of putting their 'inovation' in a part of the game that is temporary.  There personal story line quests were cool and the fully voiced portion was neat...but it provides nothing once you've seen it and hit max level.  I'm avoiding playing too much on purpose because I don't want to burn out.  I want to still enjoy logging on to raid on raid nights and such.  This game has a whole lot of potential and with the backing of the Star Wars name they can still make the game a good one.  They just have to start breaking the norm on some of the things that are just WoW reskinned.  And I don't bash WoW...it is a good game...but we have that game already.

More than anything if I never have to do another 'daily' in an MMO again it won't be too soon.  The grind daily quests to save up X form of currency is the most rediculous part of WoW any game can copy in my mind.  Things should take time to accomplish (and be worth accomplishing) but it should be because of skill/effort/determination...not a mindless grind that anyone can do it just depends on how long you can stay awake and kill the same thing over and over. 




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Offline Duck

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2012, 11:31:46 am »
More than anything if I never have to do another 'daily' in an MMO again it won't be too soon.  The grind daily quests to save up X form of currency is the most rediculous part of WoW any game can copy in my mind.  Things should take time to accomplish (and be worth accomplishing) but it should be because of skill/effort/determination...not a mindless grind that anyone can do it just depends on how long you can stay awake and kill the same thing over and over.

agreed

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snissel

Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2012, 11:43:54 am »
I believe the problem was they spent too much of their budget on leveling. I have 25 days on snissel and when I dinged 50 I had 9 days played. So that means I spent 384 hours at max level which is way more than the 216 I spent leveling.

Leveling in mmo means squat now, future mmo developers need to spend most of their budget on end game imo. I agree with what other suggested, sandbox elements for endgame (pvp, housing, crafting, faction griding)in conjunction with pve raids/bosses.

Also I kind of believe casuals have ruined the genre. They make the content too accessible for everyone.  The hardcore/power game chew up the content too fast and post all the info on internet. Then the casuals can just read that info and power through the content also.

Offline Booms

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2012, 11:58:27 am »
There is a fair amount of variables that decide whether a mmo can last or not. I think one of the major things is since wow changed their model to go after the casual instant gratification pc gamer it has skewed what game designer CEO's think an mmo should be and what it takes to be successful (aka make the most money). The problem is sticking with that model is shooting yourself in the foot because linear instant gratification pve can only go so far.

I think what most themepark mmo designers fail to see is that pvp is the most important end game tool to keep people playing. Too much focus is put into leveling up and pve stuff. In the end people don't like doing the same dungeon they have done 30 times and have all the gear from. There has to be something to fight for in themeparks and you have to feel like you are making a difference. SWG was coming close to this in nge and other games have had certain elements that helped. Having a siege system with player owned cities (or something along those lines), multiple huge areas with controllable points that can effect the entire server, warzones, and having small other things like stat gathering, pvp gear etc. can increase the shelf life of any game from 3 months to a year. The political dealings of eve and darkfall is what keeps it interesting and people playing in my opinion.

But I still have hope for swtor, I know they are working on a new pvp system, because if they aren't they are just dumb. I think it will be pretty cool too, but it won't be out until around Christmas with the new expansion.

 It really takes a lot when you look at the big picture, MMO's are hard as hell to make.

There are a couple foundation things that if any of them are lacking in an mmo it can dramatically effect the success of a game, here is my list.

- Leveling does not feel grindy and is fun
- Strong lore background
- Good PVE dungeons
- Good/Solid Combat system
- Balance in PVP
- Multiple PVP Systems that keep players involved; ie, warzones, seiging, control point based areas with incentive

I think a perfect example with this is Rift. It had pretty good dungeons, the leveling wasn't that bad and had a pretty good combat system.

What killed it was that it had no lore, the pvp balance was bad because there were too many class options, they basically shot their self in the foot there because there is no way someone could keep balance of all those classes. You also count the fact that it had no seige or pvp system outside of warzones and it was easy to see why the game died off a couple months after everyone had completed the PVE content.

Games can always redeem themselves down the road but it is much harder to do and the people running the games don't want to make the money investment and take the risk. I think my one hope with swtor is that they realized early the pvp systems needed to be redone and invested money in it when they had the money. But who knows, what swtor does in the next 2 months or so will really decide the life of the game, because a lot of people like me who still do love them are keeping their subs open waiting to see what the future holds.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 12:21:48 pm by Booms »

Offline Booms

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2012, 12:01:47 pm »
wow snissel and i agree on something for once

Offline Mas

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2012, 12:06:43 pm »
A big part of me really wonders if the mmo craze is nearing its' end.  A sudden fad that is dying out.  Every mmo disappointing is almost too much of a coincidence.  Gamers might not be at the point of admitting it yet but I think a whole lot of people are just tired off mmos in general.

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Definitely finding it hard to argue with that Jaedan, but maybe like others said this is just a transitional phase. With the subscription model generally going out of fashion and people looking for a fresh new take on the genre, maybe we're just waiting for 'the next big thing'...

Though I think what this thread has highlighted is: We should all be playing EVE Online together... :P

Offline Booms

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Re: SWTOR. Is there any new hope?
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2012, 12:14:30 pm »

A big part of me really wonders if the mmo craze is nearing its' end.  A sudden fad that is dying out.  Every mmo disappointing is almost too much of a coincidence.  Gamers might not be at the point of admitting it yet but I think a whole lot of people are just tired off mmos in general.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Definitely finding it hard to argue with that Jaedan, but maybe like others said this is just a transitional phase. With the subscription model generally going out of fashion and people looking for a fresh new take on the genre, maybe we're just waiting for 'the next big thing'...

Though I think what this thread has highlighted is: We should all be playing EVE Online together... :P

I assure you if we had an official division in Darkfall it would probably be one of the most epic times in TG history. The problem for me in EVE is I hate the combat and leveling system. Not being able to power grind and having crappy combat prevents the game from being good imo.

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