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Author Topic: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?  (Read 1397 times)

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Offline JoeCold

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Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« on: April 04, 2011, 02:47:11 pm »
Hi all,

About a week ago, Intermission posted an article about a guild that plays DDO as a permadeath game in this somewhat cryptically titled thread.  I thought it was cool and he and I got to talking and decided to see if we could generate some interest in trying this out in LotRO.  Well, we got a lot of positive response in this thread, but also some suggestions for other games. 

In the interest of getting as much participation as possible, I thought we'd see who is interested in joining us in this experiment and what game would be the most popular choice.  In a couple of days, I'm going to make a poll based upon suggestions made in this thread. 

So, in what game would you like to risk the perils of permadeath?  The only two criteria when suggesting a game is that it should not be FFA PvP (though a game with heavy PvP areas is alright) and it should be an F2P game for now for maximum accessibility.  If enough of us like the playstyle, we can decide on another game to do this full time later.

I'll try to keep the list of suggestions updated in this OP.  Two games have already been suggested:

LotRO
Champions Online
Dungeons and Dragons Online
Voyage Century Online
Star Trek Online
Pirates of the Burning Sea
Global Agenda
Runes of Magic
Last Chaos


EDIT:  Changed my incorrect statement that the guild whose ruleset we intent to emulate played WoW.  It was DDO.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2011, 12:32:55 pm by JoeCold »

Offline Intermission

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 02:51:50 pm »
Hey Joe, the guild , Mortal Voyage played in DDO not WoW.

So, I guess you can DDO to the list as well.


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Offline JoeCold

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 07:00:43 pm »
DDD'oh!!!!!

Wow, I even had to find your original thread, titled DDO, to link it in the post.  Must be Monday.  :-[
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 07:04:52 pm by JoeCold »

Offline Calys

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 09:36:48 pm »
As I said in that thread I have a few suggestions and a few new ones as I think about it.  My suggestions come more from Lore than they do funtionality or funfactor but I'll add some comments to the end.

DDO (apparently but never played it)
LotRO (I dislike the lore point but its the probably the best game in the F2Pverse.)
Champions Online (Lore doesnt work well here either but the thought of a superhero dying is wrong, especially since in comics the super hero/super villain doesnt die until the author wants him/her too.  Not the best gameplay but it's gotten better, especially since its free but theres also no PvP.)
DC Universe (Same as above but not free and reallllllly short but more PvP.)
Star Trek Online / Pirates of the Burning Sea Online (I'll add to this summary afterwards with the last game.  Kinda silly to think that if your the captain of a ship and something tragic happens to the ship that you magically respawn unharmed somewhere.  For STO, that has an even greater attraction that it's space!  At least in PotBS you can swim to shore and be rescued if you think about it.  But still, sharks bite. NOM!)
Eve (I think this could be the most challenging and rewarding of ALL the games.  The feeling of flying around in space [now they added ground combat I THINK] is risky, the risk you face going into bad territory, and if you get podded [your pilot dies] your dead dead.  Usually happens by angry angsty 12 year olds in PvP.  The problem with the game is it takes a crap ton of time to do anything let alone fly around.  Another problem is the way the skill points work.  It takes a long long looooong time to build up skill points to make you better.  Thats part of the risk and reward of doing the permadeath in this game.  But anyway, it has the impending doom of flying in space like STO but a better game for it.)

Anyway to summerize, I think if you do a permadeath type thing it should be a place where dying in a real life situation to that will have you killed.  Other games like WoW, I think LotRO, even Rift, won't work because the lore of the games builds it so that if you die you dont die.  STO/Eve is set in the future so you can survive death cause of resurrection devices or whatever, but I think the point of it still works.  Another one I think is good is Champions Online cause of the Superhero thing but the lack of PvP kinda makes it bland and the leveling system isnt that much fun till you get to your archnemesis parts.  PotBS is another game that works in the real life permadeath type game but its not that great of a game however the freeness is also a plus.

Offline JoeCold

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 12:34:41 am »
Really, I kind of think that games in which you spend more of your time as a "ship" rather than as your avatar detracts from the PnP feel.  I guess we haven't really talked about that point much, but I think that is the other part of it beyond increased challenge is that the permadeath rules are supposed to give the game more of a "back to pen and paper" feel.  I'm not sure how important that is to everyone, but I know I never feel like I'm in a "party" in those ship games. 

Oh, and I think Eve may definately be over the top in that we are looking for a game that does not have FFA PvP. 

Offline Tae

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 08:53:48 am »
What about Voyage Century? I played that a while back, and it was fun to waste time in heh


Offline Calys

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 09:08:50 am »
Champions Online then I think is your best bet.  If not that then LotRO.

Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 10:12:24 am »
Hi all,

About a week ago, Intermission posted an article about a guild that plays DDO as a permadeath game in this somewhat cryptically titled thread.  I thought it was cool and he and I got to talking and decided to see if we could generate some interest in trying this out in LotRO.  Well, we got a lot of positive response in this thread, but also some suggestions for other games. 

In the interest of getting as much participation as possible, I thought we'd see who is interested in joining us in this experiment and what game would be the most popular choice.  In a couple of days, I'm going to make a poll based upon suggestions made in this thread. 

So, in what game would you like to risk the perils of permadeath?  The only two criteria when suggesting a game is that it should not be FFA PvP (though a game with heavy PvP areas is alright) and it should be an F2P game for now for maximum accessibility.  If enough of us like the playstyle, we can decide on another game to do this full time later.

I'll try to keep the list of suggestions updated in this OP.  Two games have already been suggested:

LotRO
Champions Online
Dungeons and Dragons Online


EDIT:  Changed my incorrect statement that the guild whose ruleset we intent to emulate played WoW.  It was DDO.

Imo, It would have to be a game that doesn't have a boring starter zone.  Cuz something like LoTRO, where you start in one place and have the same repetitive intro kind of sux.  PoTBS seems to be fun every time I reroll.  I can't recall if DDO was like that in the beginning.  I think it was, but it was a really short intro, so DDO sounds alright.  Wouldn't that suck to try out a raid and Permadeath ur whole guild tho :(  Everyone starts back at 1... ewww.

Offline JoeCold

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 03:21:51 pm »
Never heard of Voyage Century, but added it to the list.  I'll google it and check it out later.

Conflict makes a good point about starter zones.  As the Mortal Voyage GL stated, keeping that fresh is one of the harder parts of this playstyle, because you WILL go through it a lot.  This leads me to believe that we may want to consider skill based games and their progression is much less linear and so you have a lot more choice in quest progression.  Something like Fallen Earth may be perfect, if its something any of us decide to do more after this initial experiment.  However, it's not free.  Does anyone know of any skill based games that have gone F2P?

I still personally feel very strongly that an avatar based game is important to get the kind of feel in a PnP party.  However, this isn't my thing, its an idea that we are trying to get maximum participation in and I am just helping to facilitate that.  So, since two people have expressed an interest in such games, I will add STO and PotBS to the list.  However, in addition to the avatar issue, I want to warn that I think an open PvP game like PotBS will be disasterous for this concept.  Just my two cents. 

By the way, since this list is getting longer than expected (and I encourage more suggestions, especially if anyone can think of an F2P skill based MMO), I want to give you all a heads up that when I put out the poll, it will be on Survey Monkey instead of on the forums.  I'm doing this because I am much more intimately familiar with Survey Monkey (use it all the time at work) and I want to provide a ranking vote, not just a "pick your favorite".  I think its just as important to see what everyone hates as much as what everyone likes to get a good idea of what is the best fit for all of us.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 03:31:17 pm by JoeCold »

Offline Intermission

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 05:41:50 pm »
Quote
Does anyone know of any skill based games that have gone F2P?

would we be completely opposed the the idea of a game with a private server? In particular UO private server.I have played on a couple and there one thats does a really freat job of maintaining the game as it is and should be. IE. no enhanced exp or anything like that.


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Offline JoeCold

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 06:12:48 pm »
I don't think that a private server is a problem at all, especially at this stage where we are just trying the idea out and looking for a good platform.  That platform may be temporary for trial.  If enough of us really like this play style, we may move into a paid game that everyone likes even better or even do it on multiple games.

However, UO is open PvP, unless it changed dramatically in the 10 years since I last played, lol.  I see that as more of a problem than the private server. 

Offline Intermission

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 06:33:00 pm »
UO had 2 shard, or 2 worlds, 1 was open pvp, the other wasn't, but I didn't think about it, you were talking about free skill based games and that was the first thing that came to mind.


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Offline Calys

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 08:09:19 pm »
Open PVP can be and should be the exception to the rule.  They even stated that in the UO rules you all posted :)

Offline JoeCold

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 11:59:53 am »
Global Agenda is going F2P this month.

So, anyway, this last week at work turned out to be much busier than I imagined.  I hope the fact that I don't see any new posts in either thread doesn't mean interest has waned already? 

Anyway, I'm going to set up a survey monkey poll today and will post the link here.

Offline Intermission

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Re: Guardian Permadeath Experiment: game suggestions?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 12:01:17 pm »
Sounds good Joe.


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